How many "Jesuses" were there?

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How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:38 pm

To understand this better, you have to start by considering what Israel was like when "Jesus of Nazareth" was preaching:

* Rome was directly administering their country

* While it had originally granted Israel some autonomy, frequent Jewish rebellions led the Romans to end most of this

* After the death of King Herod (4 BCE), the nation was in full revolt against Rome

These conditions caused many Jews to think of the prophecy that a Messiah was coming to save them. Most of these would-be Messiahs chose the name Yeshua, in accordance with the prophecy, which of course is Romanised to Jesus. They included:

1 Jesus the son of Sirach of Jerusalem: He was a scholar of Jewish law; legend had it that his mother had conceived him without intercourse and that God rescued him from peril many times.

2 Jesus ben Pandira: Was angry at business being conducted in the temple. Made prophecies; miracles are attributed to his disciples.

3 Jesus ben Ananias: Propheciesed the Roman siege of Jerusalem (in which he was killed).

4 Jesus ben Saphat: Leader of a group of Jewish rebels.

5 Jesus ben Gamala: Priest who taught peace and love, established the system of formal education of Jewish children.

6 Jesus ben Thebuth: Bartered treasures from the Temple with the Romans in exchange for his own life.

7 Jesus ben Stada: Agitator who was crucified by the Romans -- in the second century CE!

But the most amazing "other Jesus" was the man who was supposed to have been crucified at the same time as Jesus of Nazareth, and was supposedly chosen to be saved from execution by the Jewish crowd that had gathered around "famous" Jesus. The Bible somewhat deceptively refers to him only by his last name, but I think it's very interesting to know that the full name of the man they spared was actually ... Jesus Barabbas!



Even more interesting, none of the historical sources that record the stories of these seven minor figures named Jesus also record any "Jesus of Nazareth." Nor, of course, do they record this spectacular event:

And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. 52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

when you add the Christ or messiah then it tends to shorten the list....

it's a bit like saying how many Elizabeths and the someone says queen Elizabeth.... assuming we don't have another queen Elizabeth but then it would be the second anyway, you know what i mean..lol

hope that helps...

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:50 pm

Lot more to it than that, of course. Many of these men adopted the name Jesus because of its significance in prophecy. They actively promoted themselves as the Messiah, just as the Biblical Jesus did.

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Lot more to it than that, of course. Many of these men adopted the name Jesus because of its significance in prophecy. They actively promoted themselves as the Messiah, just as the Biblical Jesus did.

I bet some did but it is hard as hell to change where you where born and where and how you were going to die...

and to be honest who would want to lie there way in to crucifixion...

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:09 pm

heavenlyfatheryetagain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Lot more to it than that, of course. Many of these men adopted the name Jesus because of its significance in prophecy. They actively promoted themselves as the Messiah, just as the Biblical Jesus did.

I bet some did but it is hard as hell to change where you where born and where and how you were going to die...

and to be honest who would want to lie there way in to crucifixion...

Well, surely you with all your knowledge of Christianity know that Jesus of Nazareth's message cut against the grain of the typical Jew's expectations from the Messiah; they thought he was going to restore the kingdom and win independence from Rome, not preach about a heavenly kingdom.

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:11 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheryetagain wrote:

I bet some did but it is hard as hell to change where you where born and where and how you were going to die...

and to be honest who would want to lie there way in to crucifixion...

Well, surely you with all your knowledge of Christianity know that Jesus of Nazareth's message cut against the grain of the typical Jew's expectations from the Messiah; they thought he was going to restore the kingdom and win independence from Rome, not preach about a heavenly kingdom.

some such as judas believed he would be a mighty warrior....

but that does not change the prophecies about his birth, death and Resurrection...

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheryetagain wrote:

I bet some did but it is hard as hell to change where you where born and where and how you were going to die...

and to be honest who would want to lie there way in to crucifixion...

Well, surely you with all your knowledge of Christianity know that Jesus of Nazareth's message cut against the grain of the typical Jew's expectations from the Messiah; they thought he was going to restore the kingdom and win independence from Rome, not preach about a heavenly kingdom.

earthly kingdoms will end ,but the kingdom of heaven is eternal.

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:05 pm

Jesus of Nazareth's was very much a failed messiah going by the sources, in every sense of the Jewish Messiah. He was not a warrior or freed the Jews, he then completely failed by being executed by the Romans, the very people he is meant to defeat and free the Jews from subjucation.


Last edited by Cuchulain on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:05 pm

Vicar Of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Well, surely you with all your knowledge of Christianity know that Jesus of Nazareth's message cut against the grain of the typical Jew's expectations from the Messiah; they thought he was going to restore the kingdom and win independence from Rome, not preach about a heavenly kingdom.

earthly kingdoms will end ,but the kingdom of heaven is eternal.

amen...

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:06 pm

Cuchulain wrote:Jesus of Nazareth's was very much a failed messiah going by the sources, in every sense of the Jewish Messiah. He was not a warrior or freed the Jews, he then completely failed by being executed by the Romans, the very people he is meant to defeat and free the Jews from subjucation.

Sorry this post was for you Ben

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Re: How many "Jesuses" were there?

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:13 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:Jesus of Nazareth's was very much a failed messiah going by the sources, in every sense of the Jewish Messiah. He was not a warrior or freed the Jews, he then completely failed by being executed by the Romans, the very people he is meant to defeat and free the Jews from subjucation.

Sorry this post was for you Ben

It's pretty interesting that such detailed chronicles as the ones that record the other Jesuses don't even mention a Jesus of Nazareth in the first place.

Of course, some Christian inserted a forgery into Josephus' records to make it look as though he acknowledged the existence of the Biblical Jesus: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/History/jesushistory.html

Part of a larger trend of "lying for Jesus": http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_for_Jesus

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