Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

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Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:05 pm

Run, Tom, run! Save yourself and your daughter!

Tom Cruise is reportedly having doubts over his faith in Scientology due its impact on his relationship with his daughter, Suri.

While Cruise is one of the top celebrity advocates for the religion, his love for his daughter may be stronger.

“She was going on and on about her ballet class and how much she loves it. That’s when Tom realised he’s never seen her perform ballet and he started to tear up,” an informant told Star Magazine according to Hollywood Life.

In 2012, Katie Holmes left Tom Cruise, saying that she did not want her daughter to be raised as a Scientologist.

“If they label Suri a suppressive person (a Scientology term for an enemy of the church), as they’ve been known to do with dissenters, that would make it hard for Tom to have a relationship with her. He’s between a rock and a hard place, but he’s finally making a choice to put his daughter first,” according to Star Magazine's informant.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/entertainment/celebrity/2015/07/06/Tom-Cruise-Scientology-faith-in-danger-zone-over-daughter

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:41 pm

That would be really great. Scientology is a cult and what they get up to in the way they control people is truly nasty.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:40 am

sassy wrote:That would be really great.  Scientology is a cult and what they get up to in the way they control people is truly nasty.

Yeah, there's a city in Florida (Clearwater) that they're said to essentially run -- creeps me out every time I think about it. At one of the sites that me, Lurker, veya and Caution were at, I think it was Shortnews, if somebody posted news about the CoS's shenanigans, this one member would always reply, "Hey guys, I'm not a Scientologist but they seem like OK people to me, maybe you're being a bit too hard on them," and would hardly ever post on any other topic.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:48 am

it was on short news I cant remember the poster name but they only ever posted if it was Scientology and full on whitewashed the thread with crap in defense of Scientology and tried to make opponents of Scientology look bad.

I wonder how much we'd have to post to get a Scientology to send a 'defender' here grin angel

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:59 am

veya_victaous wrote:it was on short news I cant remember the poster name but they only ever posted if it was Scientology and full on whitewashed the thread with crap in defense of Scientology and tried to make opponents of Scientology look bad.

I wonder how much we'd have to post to get a Scientology to send a 'defender' here grin angel

Glad you remember it too -- I always wanted to know what was really going on. Paid internet troll anyone? Smile

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:49 am

Sounds like it. Perhaps they pick up if the word 'Scientology' is used enough.

We can try Veya lol. Scientology stinks.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:32 pm

veya_victaous wrote:it was on short news I cant remember the poster name but they only ever posted if it was Scientology and full on whitewashed the thread with crap in defense of Scientology and tried to make opponents of Scientology look bad.

I wonder how much we'd have to post to get a Scientology to send a 'defender' here grin angel

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:33 pm

On another note, lots of people say he will wind up dead within a couple of years if he leaves....

I don't like him, I think he's a stupid jumped up little twat with no real talent whatsoever.

Oh and I think he's gay. Once he leaves the "cult" he will be outed.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:15 am

eddie wrote:On another note, lots of people say he will wind up dead within a couple of years if he leaves....

I don't  like him, I think he's a stupid jumped up little twat with no real talent whatsoever.

Oh and I think he's gay. Once he leaves the "cult" he will be outed.

Nah, he's too rich and visible at this point. They might out him but I doubt they're careless enough to try to kill him.

Now, they have tried to destroy people's reputations, and this is one of those conspiracy theories that has a lot of positive evidence supporting it. Just look at Leah Remini, I think she was just far enough out of the spotlight that they thought they could mess with her without too much blowback. But, nope! http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/03/uk-remini-scientology-idUKBRE97208420130803

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:17 am

eddie wrote:On another note, lots of people say he will wind up dead within a couple of years if he leaves....

I don't  like him, I think he's a stupid jumped up little twat with no real talent whatsoever.

Oh and I think he's gay. Once he leaves the "cult" he will be outed.

I have to disagree - he has a lot of talent, as I said before.

When people join these organisations, it's best if they work out for themselves if they want to stay or not. If he's realising that it's creating a problem with his daughter, he will make his own decision. There's no point trying to convince people not to join the scientologists or whoever.

They tried to recruit me once in a shop in London. Laughing

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:22 am

We get it all the time here. "Would you like a free reading?" They know how to manipulate people and have the same blind commitment to purpose as any other fundie -- you won't hear of a "moderate Scientologist" ...

B4st4rds! Smile

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:34 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:We get it all the time here. "Would you like a free reading?" They know how to manipulate people and have the same blind commitment to purpose as any other fundie -- you won't hear of a "moderate Scientologist" ...

B4st4rds! Smile

I didn't know they were scientologists at first. I do think that people still make their own choice, no matter how persuasive these people are.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:54 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:We get it all the time here. "Would you like a free reading?" They know how to manipulate people and have the same blind commitment to purpose as any other fundie -- you won't hear of a "moderate Scientologist" ...

B4st4rds! Smile

I didn't know they were scientologists at first. I do think that people still make their own choice, no matter how persuasive these people are.

I just have to single out Scientology because you can buy a Bible, Quaran, Bhagavad Gita, whatever, and know most everything about those religions before you do anything else. With Scientology, they make you pay for each level of "knowledge" until you've given over a year's worth of earnings (for most people) and only then do they tell you about Xenu and the volcanoes ... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:57 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I didn't know they were scientologists at first. I do think that people still make their own choice, no matter how persuasive these people are.

I just have to single out Scientology because you can buy a Bible, Quaran, Bhagavad Gita, whatever, and know most everything about those religions before you do anything else. With Scientology, they make you pay for each level of "knowledge" until you've given over a year's worth of earnings (for most people) and only then do they tell you about Xenu and the volcanoes ... Rolling Eyes

I would say that anyone would question handing over large sums of money, and if they don't, they're a bit silly.

I do understand that some people might be a bit vulnerable at the time and looking for "answers" so to speak, but still they should be able to decide for themselves what they want and if it's worth paying for. They may well decide that it is - it's up to them.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:00 am

They prey on the weak and vulnerable, like any cult. They're out looking for people sad enough to be looking for a clean break and easy answers, and they exploit that for profit ...


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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:05 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:They prey on the weak and vulnerable, like any cult. They're out looking for people sad enough to be looking for a clean break and easy answers, and they exploit that for profit ...


Maybe so, but it's still up to the individual as to whether they want to join or not. Some people are looking for a clean break, as you put it, and maybe it does help them. If they then decide that it doesn't, they can stop.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:11 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:They prey on the weak and vulnerable, like any cult. They're out looking for people sad enough to be looking for a clean break and easy answers, and they exploit that for profit ...


Maybe so, but it's still up to the individual as to whether they want to join or not. Some people are looking for a clean break, as you put it, and maybe it does help them. If they then decide that it doesn't, they can stop.

OK, I get that. But if you're offering that, should you charge so much money for it? And shouldn't you at least be up front about what the belief system is when people are just getting into it?

You can check into any American hotel (pretty much) and read the Bible for free, front to back, thanks to the Gideons. I just think when it comes to religious beliefs, nothing should be hidden -- especially when you (used to) have to pay in order to learn what the beliefs are ...

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:15 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Maybe so, but it's still up to the individual as to whether they want to join or not. Some people are looking for a clean break, as you put it, and maybe it does help them. If they then decide that it doesn't, they can stop.

OK, I get that. But if you're offering that, should you charge so much money for it? And shouldn't you at least be up front about what the belief system is when people are just getting into it?

You can check into any American hotel (pretty much) and read the Bible for free, front to back, thanks to the Gideons. I just think when it comes to religious beliefs, nothing should be hidden -- especially when you (used to) have to pay in order to learn what the beliefs are ...

Assuming that the money isn't being taken out of their accounts without their knowledge, it's entirely up to the individual what they pay for and why.

I read this kind of thing so often - not just about Scientology either. I read it about Buddhist organisations and others too. The fact is that it suits these people at the time to join such an organisation, and later on maybe it doesn't suit them. However, they should just accept that it was their decision and it seemed like a good idea at the time, and then they changed their mind.

If Tom Cruise is having second thoughts, I hope he doesn't start blaming them and saying he was sucked into it because it clearly suited him for a long time. I take this celebrity gossip with a pinch of salt though. Laughing

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:19 am

In Hollywood, though, Scientology has built a big "good ol' boys" network where you get better roles if you're one of them. That's why so many actors are part of the church.

I think the majority of Scientologists didn't realize what they were getting into when they started, and then found themselves trapped -- with the option to leave, yes, but at the cost of losing a lot.

Have you looked much into Scientology?

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:21 am

And might I add, the leaders of Scientology make it really tough on anybody who wants to leave.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:In Hollywood, though, Scientology has built a big "good ol' boys" network where you get better roles if you're one of them. That's why so many actors are part of the church.

I think the majority of Scientologists didn't realize what they were getting into when they started, and then found themselves trapped -- with the option to leave, yes, but at the cost of losing a lot.

Have you looked much into Scientology?

So someone can benefit by getting better roles? Then it suits them to join doesn't it?

Ben, I believe that people need to take responsibility for their own actions and understand that they do things for their own benefit. If that doesn't work out, they should not blame others. I don't mean they should beat themselves up for a decision which turns out to be the wrong one for them, but they just need to understand that it was their own decision and to try to move on.

What is the cost of leaving?

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:28 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:In Hollywood, though, Scientology has built a big "good ol' boys" network where you get better roles if you're one of them. That's why so many actors are part of the church.

I think the majority of Scientologists didn't realize what they were getting into when they started, and then found themselves trapped -- with the option to leave, yes, but at the cost of losing a lot.

Have you looked much into Scientology?

So someone can benefit by getting better roles? Then it suits them to join doesn't it?

Ben, I believe that people need to take responsibility for their own actions and understand that they do things for their own benefit. If that doesn't work out, they should not blame others. I don't mean they should beat themselves up for a decision which turns out to be the wrong one for them, but they just need to understand that it was their own decision and to try to move on.

What is the cost of leaving?

The Church’s modus operandi stems from a policy called “fair game," which states: An enemy of Scientology, referred to as a suppressive person (SP), “may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

Back in the day before the Internet publicized the secrets of Planet Xenu, Scientology relied on lawsuits to intimidate its detractors. Between 1991 and 1996, John Travolta’s religion filed more than 50 lawsuits against the Cult Awareness Network (CAN),eventually forcing it into bankruptcy. The Church then bought its name and assets in bankruptcy proceedings and used CAN as the title of an unrelated organization.

These tactics trickle down from L. Ron Hubbard. In a 1966 policy letter, the author and founder of Scientology instructed his followers on the proper procedure for handling investigations.

1. Spot who is attacking us.
2. Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using own professionals, not outside agencies.
3. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.
4. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.
5. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way.

http://www.alternet.org/culture/6-insane-ways-church-scientology-has-tried-silence-its-critics

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:30 am

Rags, do you know about John Travolta's son dying, because he would not take him to a doctor, Scientologists believe sickness is your own fault and you have to cure yourself.

Look into it more, it's a cut and it's horrific.

This might give you a slight idea, just one of many:

http://dbloch7986.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-truly-dark-side-of-scientology.html

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:40 am

sassy wrote:Rags, do you know about John Travolta's son dying, because he would not take him to a doctor, Scientologists believe sickness is your own fault and you have to cure yourself.

Look into it more, it's a cut and it's horrific.

This might give you a slight idea, just one of many:

http://dbloch7986.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-truly-dark-side-of-scientology.html

I've just read about it, and I have read the rumours. However, John T actually praised the Scientologists for helping him through it. If he did not seek treatment for his son, that was his own decision.

I'm not praising this organisation by any means, and if someone I knew told me they were joining, I would advise them to be very careful and understand what they were getting into. However, it would still be up to them.

I dislike the way some people immediately look around for someone to blame when they make a bad decision.


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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:42 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So someone can benefit by getting better roles? Then it suits them to join doesn't it?

Ben, I believe that people need to take responsibility for their own actions and understand that they do things for their own benefit. If that doesn't work out, they should not blame others. I don't mean they should beat themselves up for a decision which turns out to be the wrong one for them, but they just need to understand that it was their own decision and to try to move on.

What is the cost of leaving?

The Church’s modus operandi stems from a policy called “fair game," which states: An enemy of Scientology, referred to as a suppressive person (SP), “may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

Back in the day before the Internet publicized the secrets of Planet Xenu, Scientology relied on lawsuits to intimidate its detractors. Between 1991 and 1996, John Travolta’s religion filed more than 50 lawsuits against the Cult Awareness Network (CAN),eventually forcing it into bankruptcy. The Church then bought its name and assets in bankruptcy proceedings and used CAN as the title of an unrelated organization.

These tactics trickle down from L. Ron Hubbard. In a 1966 policy letter, the author and founder of Scientology instructed his followers on the proper procedure for handling investigations.

1. Spot who is attacking us.
2. Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using own professionals, not outside agencies.
3. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.
4. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.
5. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way.

http://www.alternet.org/culture/6-insane-ways-church-scientology-has-tried-silence-its-critics

I'm sorry but I can't see how that answers my question. If someone just leaves, what can anyone do to them?

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:48 am

Well, this is a mild idea of some of the stuff to do to people who leave:


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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:50 am

Another:




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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:04 am

sassy wrote:Well, this is a mild idea of some of the stuff to do to people who leave:


So Mark Rathbone posted something negative about the organisation on his blog, and they objected. What's the big deal? He was called "suppressive". I presume they didn't kidnap him forcibly or prevent him from getting on a plane or whatever.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:34 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:In Hollywood, though, Scientology has built a big "good ol' boys" network where you get better roles if you're one of them. That's why so many actors are part of the church.

I think the majority of Scientologists didn't realize what they were getting into when they started, and then found themselves trapped -- with the option to leave, yes, but at the cost of losing a lot.

Have you looked much into Scientology?


Yes this is why Scientology is considered "cultish" becasue of the closed way it operates and promises it makes.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:35 am

There are lots of organisations which are called "cults". I consider the word to be neither positive nor negative really. One person's cult is another persons close-knit group of people with similar interests and outlooks.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:12 pm

In the 1970s Scientology took umbrage at official organisations investigating it and holding it to account for what it was doing, so Scientology managed to perform the largest infiltration of the United States government in history.   5,000 of Scientology’s crack commandos wiretapped and burglarized various agencies. They stole hundreds of documents, mainly from the IRS. No critic was spared, and in the end, 136 organizations, agencies and foreign embassies were infiltrated.



Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members, in more than 30 countries.[1] It was the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3] This operation also exposed the Scientology plot 'Operation Freakout', because Operation Snow White was the case that initiated the US government investigation of the Church.[3]

Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States v. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F.Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White


And BTW, people who talked about it at the time were called 'conspiracy theorists' lol

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:22 pm

sassy wrote:In the 1970s Scientology took umbrage at official organisations investigating it and holding it to account for what it was doing, so Scientology managed to perform the largest infiltration of the United States government in history.   5,000 of Scientology’s crack commandos wiretapped and burglarized various agencies. They stole hundreds of documents, mainly from the IRS. No critic was spared, and in the end, 136 organizations, agencies and foreign embassies were infiltrated.



Operation Snow White was the Church of Scientology's internal name for a major criminal conspiracy during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members, in more than 30 countries.[1] It was the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3] This operation also exposed the Scientology plot 'Operation Freakout', because Operation Snow White was the case that initiated the US government investigation of the Church.[3]

Under this program, Scientology operatives committed infiltration, wiretapping, and theft of documents in government offices, most notably those of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Eleven highly placed Church executives, including Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of founder L. Ron Hubbard and second-in-command of the organization), pleaded guilty or were convicted in federal court of obstructing justice, burglary of government offices, and theft of documents and government property. The case was United States v. Mary Sue Hubbard et al., 493 F.Supp. 209 (D.D.C. 1979)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White


And BTW, people who talked about it at the time were called 'conspiracy theorists' lol

Hahahahaha anybody that talks "against the norm" is called a conspiracy nut lol!

There's a lot of bad press about Scientology, it's all available to read online.
Lots of people on Facebook discussing this too, the main opinion is he'll be "found dead" within a few years or a lot of his secrets will be exposed.

He'd better hire that lying criminal, Max Clifford.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:34 pm

Well, there are many that have been found dead or driven to suicide.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:44 pm

I know sassy. It's hard to realise how these people get away with stuff.

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by sassy on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:55 pm

Ahhh, but it's a 'conspiracy theory' that they do Rolling Eyes Wink

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Re: Relationship with daughter may be pushing Tom Cruise away from Scientology

Post by eddie on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:25 pm

sassy wrote:Ahhh, but it's a 'conspiracy theory' that they do Rolling Eyes Wink

Of course Rolling Eyes

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